People splinter into religious groups. That's what people do.
My momentary vision of a "consolidated religion" was likely motivated by a desire "to find a way to improve society and relations with those we share the world with," as the blogger puts it who goes by the handle "Scary Monster" (though the person is a mild-mannered school teacher). Or motivated by my 1960s, Beatles desire to find a way for currently unreconciled groups to "come together now, love one another right now"...? Pie in the sky.
And what made me think that anyone would sign up for "a consolidated religion"?! That's about as naive a hope as the one I had as an adolescent, that all we need to do to gain another person's agreement is to "reason together" about the facts. That empty hope rested on the false assumption that everyone can see the facts the same way. Alas, disagreement goes much, much deeper, to the assumptions, values, agendas that powerfully control how we perceive the world (and the "facts") in the first place.
The desire or need for individuals to "apprehend themselves [as standing] in relation to whatever they may consider the divine" (as William James wrote) will have to be each individual's project and struggle. I momentarily lost sight of that, which has been as core a belief of mine as regards religion as I have. I think I must have been drunk to imagine that I could "will to believe...a set of encompassing [Abramaic] tenets"...me who only recently decided to give up wavering between believing and not believing [in] the special divinity of Jesus Christ, coming down as not believing it! And me who eschews dogma, the very thing that "encompassing tenets" would surely amount to!
What a short-lived fantasy it seems to have been, my proposal of a consolidated, Abramaic religion! What a suspect proposal to have spent words on!
The only part of the post that I think really sticks, for me personally, is James's idea that our own subconscious is the "hither side" of the "more" that is God.
Oh, terrestial/celestial muse,
inspire me, please,
to think on spiritual matters clearly,
without jargonese,
Show me how to find my way
and, if I find it, what to say.
Peace Moristotle,
ReplyDeleteSorry I am late. I had similar thoughts as Scary Monster when I read your proposal; and then thought ironic enough Islam sees itself as the overall tenet of Abrahamic faiths; mainly pulling everyone back to the worship of One God.
If there's anything that is stressed more than all, in the Quran it is the uniqueness/separation of the Creator from all creation.
It would be very hard to persuade people to leave their respective paths, with their built in assumptions and prejudices for something "novel" that would eventually fall into similar schisms and disagreements too (which is pretty much what you said.)
I think if everyone who professes a faith, actually walked the walk, we would have less problems in this world.
I pray you find peace and answers to your questions.
your fellow wayfarers.
Thank you, my dear fellow wayfarer. I feel calm in the thought that I might but "walk the walk" and thereby be released from tilting at windmills. Are you familiar with that saying? (From Cervantes's Don Quixote, from which comes the adjective "quixotic," or "idealistic to an impractical degree.")
ReplyDeleteBut, for the sake of clarity of discussion, please elaborate on your statement, "Islam sees itself as the overall tenet of Abrahamic faiths." On the face of it, that seems possibly to mean that Islam sees Judaism and Christianity as irrelevant? (I suspect, from the "then thought ironic enough" with which you introduced it, that you don't mean to imply that.)
Also (the second part of that): "[Islam sees itself as] mainly pulling everyone back to the worship of One God." I thought that monotheism is the ONE thing that is actually and unequivocally common to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, so I'm confused as to what you mean here.
And, finally, does your statement, "If there's anything that is stressed more than all in the Quran it is the uniqueness/separation of the Creator from all creation," imply that Islam looks askance at my personal belief that individuals are in some way "part of God," or at least commune with God somehow through the subconscious?
My follow-on questions might include whether Muslims tend to believe the tenets (as you will clarify them)? Or, How do they regard Judaism and Christianity? Are Jews and Christians seriously missing the boat? (Muslims do seem to me, in their seemingly very strict ritualistic practices, to take their religion very seriously indeed, at least in its outward show; I imagine that you mean something different by "walk the walk.")
Thanks!
I hope I can comment here.
ReplyDeleteI was very happy to find you while piddling around the Dem Party blog. I am new to it and curious. Your post about Bill Moyers at West Point has me replanning my immediate reading schedule. Now I come here and find someone actually talking about religion in a sensible manner. If you want to add another friend on Dem Party, I am jolene42, from Tennessee, a neighbor really.
Mr. Moristotle. To dream and hope for the improvement of life is neither foolish nor a waste of time. It's the questions we ask ourselves and each other that will eventually bring things into balance. Me just doesn't think it will happen in our lifetimes.
ReplyDeleteP.S You make me sound like Superman. "mild mannered" LOL.
Sorry Me didn't respond to your e-mail. Me teaches at a university. and anyone else who is willing to sit down in a classroom with me. (languages)
Peace Moristotle,
ReplyDeleteI have to be careful with what I say because this hopeless medium tends to lose some of the nuances of what we mean.
"1)Islam sees itself as the overall tenet of Abrahamic faiths." On the face of it, that seems possibly to mean that Islam sees Judaism and Christianity as irrelevant? (I suspect, from the "then thought ironic enough" with which you introduced it, that you don't mean to imply that.)
Islam sees itself as an extension of Judaic/Christian beliefs, and in general revelation that started with Adam,and continued on to Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all.)
In the same way that Jesus came to bring a renewal of faith to the Jews of his time, some parts of the Quran address both Christians and Jews to go back to the source and worship the God of Abraham and Adam (peace be upon them.)
There are more similarities than differences intertwining the three faiths. Yet the theological differences are very significant in our conception of the following:
a) Who is God
b) What's the place/purpose of Man (who is man in relation to creation)
c) What is sin
d)What is salvation
e) Afterlife
I would imagine any seeker would want to find out how the different religions answer the above questions and which of them makes the most sense.
The concept of Jesus as the son of God (literally) and going through him for our salvation is rejected in the Quran (He is treated as a Prophet who came to remind people to worship God)...the doctrine of original sin is one that is rejected too (since everyone is born sinless/innocent and our actions/decisions determine our destiny). The path is laid for a direct one-on-one relationship to be cultivated with God.
Again despite our differences, there are many similarities...i refuse to judge those who walk a different path as that's frankly not my job.
2)Also (the second part of that): "[Islam sees itself as] mainly pulling everyone back to the worship of One God." I thought that monotheism is the ONE thing that is actually and unequivocally common to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, so I'm confused as to what you mean here.
Yes Monotheism is something that anchors us all...yet isn't there a confusion amongst some Christians on the divinity of Jesus (peace be upon him)?
3)And, finally, does your statement, "If there's anything that is stressed more than all in the Quran it is the uniqueness/separation of the Creator from all creation," imply that Islam looks askance at my personal belief that individuals are in some way "part of God," or at least commune with God somehow through the subconscious?
Actually it doesn't. In Islam there is a belief that God's breath is a part of every soul created. That's the pure unsullied part within us that we are born with; the intrinsic knowledge of good/evil and the connection that we establish ourselves with God.
The belief that man is created in the image of God is also alive in Islam, except it alludes not to the physical form but a reflection of all His attributes; Mercy, Compassion, Love, Beauty, even Wrath, Justice, etc. The point is through nurturing our relationship with God, we will naturally cultivate those beautiful attributes.
Our position as Vicegerents on earth, stewards that work to ensure what's good and enduring is cultivated and what's evil/destructive is minimized also connects to the idea.
I would say, your idea is very close to the Islamic conception; that there is a part of us that communes with God and cultivating that is pivotal to our happiness and spiritual growth.
What I was referring to honestly is the confusion of Divinity in creation and worshipping others (in hopes of getting closer to God). The access is direct and it's up to us to seek it.
4) My follow-on questions might include whether Muslims tend to believe the tenets (as you will clarify them)? Or, How do they regard Judaism and Christianity? Are Jews and Christians seriously missing the boat?
I think I answered the first part in one above. The tenets of worshipping God, be good to each other, serving the poor etc. all make up the crux of all religions.
The meaning of "walk the walk" goes beyond rituals (which as I mentioned earlier I am not devaluing the need of): but extending compassions, working for justice, and being commited to the spirit of the law as much as the law itself.
At the risk of sounding Hippy, I would like to see a "love" revolution, which will bring us closer to ourselves and to each other.
I saw this saying (is it from the bible?) on a Church notice board once:
"When the power of love overwhelms the love for power; only then peace will reign" (paraphrased) I thought it was really gorgeous.
Peace, I hope I answered your questions.
Take care o' wayfarer.
Dear Maliha, as I told you privately already, I am profoundly moved by your comment, which so reliably—I am confident—expresses the core of Islam (at least in the context of my particular interests and concerns). At this moment, it appears to me that Islam is more congenial to my way of thinking and believing than the religion of my childhood and life is. What a surprising discovery, truly unexpected.
ReplyDeleteI'm going ahead and going public with this statement because I just visited jolene42's Democratic Party blog, and the quotation you saw on a church bulletin comes, she says—sit down for this!—from Jimi Hendrix! Yes! Her motto on her Democratic blog profile is: "'When the power of love becomes stronger than the love of power, we will have peace.' Jimi Hendrix"
The "coincidence" of her—with that's being her motto—commenting here less than four hours before you did—with your using the same quotation to express a thought—is rather striking, don't you think?
My dear, reserved, gentle Scary Monster, I think that placing you in the context of the man of steel is not so far-fetched!
ReplyDeleteJo, Thank you for visiting me here, and I just visited and left a comment on your Democratic Party blog. I saw from your blog profile that your birthday is the day after mine. My birth year is apparent from earlier posts on this blog. Please tell me whether we were born on successive days (that is, in the same year). (So that you don't have to read my blog or profile to find out, I was born in 1943.)
ReplyDeletePeace Moristotle,
ReplyDeleteI am floored that the statement is from Jimi Hendrix! Way to go church! :)
The coincidence is indeed striking...must say something about like souls?
Ha, Maliha! Who knows about what the "coincidence" says something! Interpreting a synchronicity in terms of one's spirituality is challenging.
ReplyDeleteI put the word "coincidence" in quotation marks simply because it has been said that "there are no coincidences" (in the sense that everything that seems to be one may really be some sort of spiritual communication). While I don't go nearly that far, I do recognize synchronicities—related things' occurring together which seem "too meaningful to ignore."
When you say "kindred souls," I assume you're thinking of your and Jo's kinship (since I'd never heard of the Jimi Hendrix quotation).
From my point of view, the Hendrix quote was coming at me in close proximity from two people who are "complete strangers" to one another (even if they are some sort of kinfolk).
If I look at the quotation itself, it revolves around a concept (a reality) that has been implicitly at the center of all of our religious (or spiritual) discussion, namely, love. Love is the one irreducible message of Jesus Christ that I have not walked away from, and you, my dear Maliha, have emphasized that for true Islam (not the hijacked, militant variety taught in madrasahs and espoused by suicide-bombing martyrs) love is central.
Hendrix opposed love to power, and power can be understood as representing so much that is central to the current catastrophe assailing planet Earth and its inhabitants. The power of a mighty United States to hypnotize itself into thinking (mistakenly) that it can force its will on the rest of the world. The power of affluent Americans to fool themselves into partying on with their SUVs and their thoughtless popular cultural indulgences. The power of terrorists to imagine that they can control the world through acts of mass murder. The power of a recently Tom Delay and Karl Rove-dominated Republican party to think it can "own government" into perpetuity. And on and on, alas.
Ha! I still don't know what the synchronicity "means"! But, in pragmatic terms (William James was a father of pragmatism), I can choose to concentrate on loving, as my personal response (à la Scary Monster's "dream and hope for the improvement of life") to the "world situation."
I suppose it could even be suggesting to me that, rather than continue to utterly despise George W. Bush, I might try to love the unfortunate man....and how would love for such as him express itself? Perhaps only in the mystical workings of my own private heart? But that would be a start.
Peace Moristotle,
ReplyDeleteIgnore what I said about like souls/kindered spirits...i am too much of a romantic and I see bits and pieces of my reflection everywhere I look.
I like how you expanded on the love/power dichotomy...
Extending love to the likes of Bush ? I can almost reconcile with pity...love seems too overreaching in my case anyway.
Or the way it could manifest itself is loving the oppressor enough to stop them from their oppression (and this could extend to many different situations in the world today.)