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| Blatte's Fractals: Apophysis |
In last week's column, I stated that
your doctor will almost surely nod and tell you it can't hurt to pray and have prayers said for you. So go ahead. And we won't object either. If it makes you feel better, where's the harm?One reader took exception to the concluding question. While acknowledging that "there may not be any harm in prayer itself," he said that there is harm in prayer's "connection to religion," whose purpose, he said, is "to give people an 'out' when bad things happen in the real world." He said that having such an out encourages people "to take the real world less seriously than they should" because "there is a next world where things will be made right." He contended that if people took this world more seriously, and took better care of the world and of themselves here and now, maybe they wouldn't be needing a doctor—or prayer—in the first place.
He also distinguished between believing in a "traditional god" who can intervene and "make things right" versus non-traditional believers who believe in "some sort of interconnected cosmos through power of nature, shared energy, etc." and "think that if you 'do good' and take care of yourself, others, and the environment, good will be returned in this realm, not some far off never never land."
Many of this blog's readers either pray or believe in the power of other people's prayer to effect a difference in what happens. I ask those readers to please comment on the reader's objections to prayer that I've summarized above.
- Do you, for example, take things here and now less seriously because you believe that prayer makes a difference? Please elaborate on your "yes" or "no" answer.
- If you can, please offer examples of prayer making a difference.
- Do you consider yourself to be a traditional believer or a non-traditional believer? Does your belief affect how seriously you take things here and now? How?
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Copyright © 2013 by Morris Dean
| Please comment |
I firmly believe that the human brain is the real power. Very religious people belive in the healing powers of prayer and there have been documented cases of Cancer suddenly disappearing. I believe these "cures" were done by the person's own mind. Using a portion of their brain that is seldom active.
ReplyDeleteYou may believe it was prayer, go ahead, but you cured yourself!
Sharon, your reference to documented cases indicates that your firm belief is based on evidence, rather than on faith. Do you know whether any of the cases you refer to have been studied and anything learned about how the person's brain/mind effected the cancer's disappearance (or effected other instances of healing besides cancer)? Thanks.
DeleteSharon, I fully agree with your idea that people can cure themselves through sheer force of will, or as you say, by "using a portion of their brain that is seldom active." Do you think that is a strictly solo act, or do you see it as possibly some part of a "shared consciousness" for lack of a better term, where other people or forces of nature contribute energy to the positive outcome?
DeleteEven though I am a non-traditional believer, I wonder if spending time in visualization and focusing on positive thoughts about a preferred outcome, is an area where I have something in common with those who follow traditional religions. If they pray to their version of a god, and if I think very positively about the energy that starts with the sun and all that it touches - are we both possibly tapping into the same force, just in different ways?
Reply from Sharon, via email:
DeleteYou are absolutely correct. The force of the human brain, in combination with many others, would be a force capable of self healing.
Too bad I was not able to heal myself and avoid the week spent in the hospital.
Received from Patsy, via email:
ReplyDeleteMark 9:24. I found it myself. Just typed the verse into the internet address bar and got all kinds of references. EASY.
Not sure what to make of this. Here's what Mark 9:24 says, in the King James version:
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
I think the reader misconstrues what prayer is for. As a traditional believer, one who believes in God, I believe that prayer is a way to personally communicate with God. I don’t take prayer light-mindedly like the reader suggests. I pray many times a day and can pray as often to God as I need. I pray for many things – safety, health, answers to questions, help to make myself better, wisdom, etc. I also take time to thank God for the blessings I have been given either in my general life or today specifically. I don’t pray for safety or peace and then do nothing or just blindly live my life assuming God will take care of everything. God expects me to do my part too. I am supposed to learn from my life’s choices. I take my life on this earth very seriously, mostly because I also believe in a life after death. I believe that I must live a worthy life on this earth – a life of righteousness, service, and devotion to God. Because I want to live with God after this life, I work very hard to live a life God would approve of. Prayer means so much to me because I can become closer to God in this way. I know He answers my prayers. I feel more love and peace in my life, and I have received answers to my prayers many times. So many times I know God has protected me and my family. I have also received answers on what to do when I have a decision to make. Prayer takes faith, and by praying, our faith in God will improve and we will have a firmer desire to live the way He would want us to.
ReplyDelete1. I don't believe I take things less serious because I believe in prayer. I do think those that believe in God and prayer look at things a lot different than those that don't.
ReplyDelete2. I wouldn't know where to start about how prayer makes a difference, it affects every aspect of my life.
3. I consider myself a traditional believer. My beliefs affect the way I see things in the world. For instance I feel that all that is going on in the Middle East is part of prophecy happening before our eyes. So yes I take it very seriously and I do believe things are going to get worse as far as the world situation.
Mandy and Karen, when you say "God" what exactly do you mean? Do you refer to the Christian version of God and deny the existence of any other god, or do you make allowance that different names could possibly mean the same thing?
DeleteI am a non-traditional believer in large part because I can't accept that all those who believe in God are right, and will go to heaven, and all who believe in Allah are wrong, and will go to hell. Or vice versa. Or that people who refuse to believe in either are likewise doomed to an eternity in some forbidding place.
For eons, before there were Christian, Islamic, Hindu or Buddhist "gods," millions upon millions of people worshiped the sun, or the moon, or both. Are all those people doomed to eternity in hell just because they lived before someone came up with the idea of God, Allah, Buddha, Shiva, or whatever other modern god?
The ancient Egyptians had an advanced and dynamic culture built around Ra, God of the Sun, and had a variety of drawings and symbols, which evolved over time, that translated the concept of Ra into an visual image the masses could comprehend. Is it possible the modern descriptions of Christian, Islamic and other gods are merely updated, humanized symbols for Ra, and that the Egyptians had it right in the first place? And that all others who came before them, who built their lives around the power of the sun during the day, and the moon at night, also had it right? Or are we to believe that everyone was wrong until now, or 200 years ago, or 500 or 1,000 years ago, and those that had it wrong are doomed, but those who have it right today are saved?
Borrowing from my reply to Sharon (above): I wonder if spending time in visualization and focusing on positive thoughts about a preferred outcome, is an area where I have something in common with those of you who follow traditional religions. If you pray to your version of a god, and if I think very positively about the energy that starts with the sun and all that it touches - are we both possibly tapping into the same force, just in different ways and by different names? Or do you see it that you are right, because you buy into the modern accepted definition of God, and I am wrong, because I wonder if a millions of years old version of a universal god based in the power of nature may yet stand the test of time?
Reply from Mandy, via email:
DeleteI have a reply for this person:
When I say God, I am speaking as a Christian. There are Christians, Muslims, etc., that believe anyone who doesn't believe in the true God (whoever they think that is) will go to Hell. In my Christian faith (Mormon), we believe that all people will have the opportunity to learn of Jesus Christ and will have the choice to accept Him as their Savior. This opportunity could happen in life here on earth, or after this life, before final judgment. We do not believe that people who choose not to accept Christ will "burn in Hell," though, because there are many people who strive to be good people who aren't Christians and don't believe as we do. If you believe in one level of Heaven, then I suppose you have to believe that all who don't believe in your God will go to Hell, but in my religion, we believe Heaven has different levels and you will go to a certain level based on how you lived your life on the earth, and based on your devotion to Jesus and His gospel. We also respect all religions and can learn good things from all of them. We don't judge others for believing differently than us, and we don't condemn them. I would also hope most people don't choose their religion based on what's the latest trend in society, but rather based on their own research, experiences, and feelings.
Morris, a reply that I appreciate your sending to Mandy...
DeleteThank you for the most interesting reply. I don't know much about the Mormon religion but I greatly respect that most Mormons I have met seem to actually live their religion, instead of just giving it lip service. They seem to "walk the walk instead of just talking the talk," as we say in SW Virginia.
You've raised a point I was not fully aware of, so I am asking clarification. Is what you are saying about people being able to reach certain levels of "Heaven" based on how they lived their life on earth your interpretation of Mormon theology, or is that the official Mormon doctrine? As I said previously, I have known only a few Mormons, and I had never heard any of them mention that before, so I am curious about the details. It is a very interesting concept that potentially meshes much better than I would have imagined with what I would normally call "non-traditional" beliefs.
Mandy replied to motomynd's comment on June 8, but I mis-remembered that she sent it via email rather than left it here in a comment. Here it is, for all:
DeleteThank you for your kind words about Mormons. Yes, those of us that are active in our faith really do try our best to live our religion. To answer your question, the levels of Heaven I mentioned are included in Mormon doctrine. If you would like to read more, here is a link to our website for more insight: http://www.lds.org/topics/kingdoms-of-glory?lang=eng.
Motomynd, if you'd like to contact me directly to answer more questions, you can.
Received from Joe, via email:
ReplyDelete1. No. I worry less about things I cannot control. Regardless of what faith you subscribe to, life is finite and you have to take care of business. Certain situations do not appear as serious if you are prepared for them. One way people of faith prepare for challenges is praying for strength, courage, wisdom. Of course there are challenges that are unforseen, but again people of faith pray for strength, courage and wisdom to tackle these challenges as well.
2. About a year ago I started getting calls from this company about a job opportunity. I did not want to change jobs. I really liked my current job and had no plans of leaving. Great company to work for, good benefits, cool people there my age, etc. However I kept receiving a call from this company. I agreed to take an interview. Didn't really care for the position they were offering. It was in an area of IT that I didn't really like or want to work in. The job was 40 miles away from home (double my current commute).
My wife and I prayed over the situation. We felt God was instructing me to take the job. Wondered why He wanted me to take a job I didn't really want, however we both felt a peace (Philippians 4:6-7) about it and went for it. Three months later the company I used to work for was sold, 3 months after that the corporate office where I worked was shut down.
On the grand scale of things this is a pretty trivial issue, and it is easy to write off as good timing and a lucky break. But as a Christian I believe things happen for a reason. 6 months after I took the job I did not want, I received another call for a job that was a better fit, was offered the job and accepted it. I have no idea why it went down like it did, I just trust that God has a reason for it, and continue to seek where he wants me to be. Part of the process of seeking God is spending time in prayer.
3. Don't really like the traditional believer title. In His time Christ was not a traditional type of guy. The goal of Christianity is to become more like Christ. It would seem to me that some traditional believers have forgotten this. I am imperfect but improving, striving to be more like Christ. So yes of course your faith and beliefs shape how you view the world and how you handle the trials of life.
Awesome questions.
Morris, I would like to second Joe's point: awesome questions. And some pretty awesome and intriguing replies!
DeleteI had high hopes that comments could be said by different opinions and respected by others, I should have known better! Yes when I say God I am speaking of the Christian God and His Son Jesus. I am not about to get into a war of words concerning this matter. If you that do not believe the way I do are so sure of your own beliefs/unbeliefs, why does my beliefs upset you so??? This is all I have to say on these matters. God bless you and pick what ever God you want for the blessing.
ReplyDeleteKaren, I much enjoyed your witty "God bless"—good on you!
DeleteI don't believe that Motomynd was upset; he was asking questions toward furthering understanding. As you can see, he (and I) are learning new things about Mormonism, for example.
Thanks for participating!
Morris, don't mean to hijack your conversation with Karen, but no, not upset here, just felt I had upset her so it seemed best to avoid further discussion. I have always been intrigued how people can be so confident of, locked in on, and over-reactive about, their religious beliefs - when none of us can possibly know if we are right or wrong until we are dead. It is all just theory, and how people get so worked up, to the point of starting wars, becoming suicide bombers, committing genocide, etc, just amazes me.
DeleteWe are all born under the same sun, sleep under the same moon, and have our fate here determined by the same forces of nature, and I think we all would be better off to have left it at respecting the sun and the elements and letting it go at that. Creating different gods - Christian, Muslim, Hindu, and so on - has done little more than create unnecessary factionalism, death and destruction in the name of gods that people can't even prove exist. I am just very intrigued how that makes sense to anyone.
To me "religionism" is the next great hurdle that humanity needs to address, assuming people ever fully get beyond racism and sexism. I've never understood how one person viewing another as inferior due to their religious or spiritual belief is any different than being prejudiced toward them about their sex or skin color.
I firmly believe that my prayer's make a difference.
ReplyDeleteExamples of prayer's making a difference: Daily I ask God for help in doing my job and being a better husband and Grand Pa. (by way of daily prayer)
Daily I seek God's help in making the right choices: setting the right example before my wife and fellow workers and friend's. I could go on and on. I have been a Christian since April 1961. I still have many things to learn about God, and one of the area's is about prayer and the power of prayer to my holy God.
I am a believer of the Lord, Jesus Christ. (I like that term better).
My believe in God affects how I take everyday life. I would not want to get up everyday without my LORD, being right there by my side. There you have, Uncle Morris, the first time I posted any thing on your site,(I think). I am a Sixty year old, born again Christian, who believes in prayer and a HOLY God. And who loves his family very much and I feel truly bless!
THANK you, Nephew, eloquent statement. Congratulations on successfully leaving perhaps your first comment on Moristotle & Co.!
DeleteMoto/Morris, I cannot tell you how happy I am I missed this one.(smile)
ReplyDeleteAmen.
DeleteThank you, Brothers Edwin and Charles!
DeleteVery funny (smile). Maybe I'm a group of one here, but I have always been overtly intrigued by people who have strong feelings about prayer and their god of choice. I remember being dragged to "bible school" by kids who lived up the street when I was maybe eight or nine years old, and even at that age it was the same feeling of disconnect I have today when I tour a museum in a foreign country.
ReplyDeleteWhile taking photos on assignment I have had the opportunity to eavesdrop on several conversations on religion. The three I remember best are one that involved a former U.S. president, one with a jihadist from Somalia, and another where a witch doctor in Tanzania described in gruesome detail the importance of properly killing and butchering an albino human for use in potions. The fact that they were all equally fervent in their beliefs, and that all used their belief as justification to kill others, is something that still makes me lose sleep on occasion.
Personally, I have to put the hubbub and angst over religion right there with tractor pulls, monster trucks and professional wrestling as things I just absolutely do not get. At all. But having people explain why they believe whatever they believe is always interesting, at least to me.