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By Susan C. Price
[Questions are followed by answers and then, inevitably by ADVICE...you DID expect that...didn’t you?]
We live in a neighborhood where people are supposed to put their garbage bins back out of sight after collection, but the neighbor across the street sometimes leaves her bin out for two or three days. What should I do? Rolling her bin back up to beside her house hasn't worked. SHE JUST DOESN'T GET IT.
The other morning early someone laid her garbage bin DOWN right behind her SUV, I suppose hoping that she would back into it and THAT would wake her up. But that seemed like playing dirty to me, so I stood it up and moved it to one side of the SUV. –Take the Fifth
Dear Take: Seriously? I know, I'm the one who whined about the disabled parking space created on my block...And I chose to do nothing but whine.
Yes, your moving the bin to one side of her car seemed the kinder thing to do, thank you.
But what to do when neighbors seem to violate the "code"? If there is a written code, you can employ that in your conversation process (see below). I bet it's just a nice habit that your neighbors have? Helps the neighborhood look nice and cared for, keeps property values up, and neighborhood disintegration down?
In both the garbage and the parking space situation, I feel that the "assumed community standard" that was being ignored was one or more of the following:
- mine alone
- unenforceable
- not worth the fight that might ensue (The question is, how do you define "worth a fight" vs "not worth a fight"—verbal or physical?)
I get the feeling that none of the "we all know the code" neighbors, including yourself, have interactions with this neighbor. Maybe it's time to start with something nice: invite her to a group potluck, include her in the egg hunt, ask her about her day...then you can gently segue into how important the neighborhood maintenance is to all of you, and ask her if she can use some help in this area. You were ready to be helpful, weren't you?
Ok, faithful readers...I seem to have no more to say on this topic. Your turn.
Take the Fifth, please let me know how it goes, or what happens. I always want to know the rest of the story.
["Take the Fifth" submitted today's question via a comment on a previous "Ask Susan" column. Readers are welcome to submit questions that way. ]
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Copyright © 2013 by Susan C. Price
| Please comment |
Susan, excellent advice and questions. Indeed, is the trash bin in violation of written code, or just a rule a bunch of meddling people with too much spare time decided should be in place? And is there a physical impairment involved, and has Take the Fifth even bothered to consider that possibility, much less the "suburban mafia" neighbors?
ReplyDeleteTake the Fifth: Going beyond Susan's excellent advice, my suggestion would be for you to move out of there as quickly as possible. You have a neighbor who put the bin where it could have done expensive damage to the "offending neighbor's" vehicle, but they don't have the nerve or decency to approach the "offender" directly? Isn't that more in keeping with the way things are done in places like Afghanistan, where terrorists use hidden IEDs (Improvised Explosive Devices) instead of fighting face to face, rather than among the genteel in planned communities with strict covenants? Save yourself, Take the Fifth, and get out now, before your neighbors target you.
My guess is the "offending neighbor" has figured out they live amongst tiresome people always looking for some petty molehill to make a mountain out of, and they are using the trash-bin tactic because they know it irritates those neighbors. I would not be surprised if their next guerrilla tactic is to put up blinds that are a shade off from the approved standard, or - gasp - paint their front door what may seem a cranberry color, instead of the officially approved burgundy.
a "moderate proposal" indeed motomynd :-)
ReplyDeleteThank you. My "Plan B" suggestion involved baseball bats, to keep the neighbors at a distance, not to use on the bin offender, but I feared that would not meet the "moderate" standard.
ReplyDeleteA well placed IED, instead of a garbage bin, would have ended the bin problem. However, I'm sure there would have been more problems to come from that action. After the ensuing war, you could apply for Federal Aid, and rebuild with underground garbage bins and everybody will live happily ever after.{smiley} What a great world we live in---war can solve so many of our problems.
ReplyDeleteKono, while it may not fit the "moderate" criteria, your IED suggestion does nicely resolve all issues and create many positive spinoffs. The "problem" neighbor is gone. The insurance company repairs the damage and upgrades the property. The neighbors benefit from increased property values. Insurance premiums and taxes increase. The overall economic and social impact, for the survivors at least, is positive. A bit over the top at first glance, but sounds better in the big picture.
ReplyDeleteThanks Moto, one must think outside of the box sometimes.
ReplyDeleteLet your HOA know. It will write a notice/warning to your neighbor.
ReplyDeleteAnon, what? Take the fun out of this absurdity with a practical suggestion? Did you check with the MOA (Moristotle Owners Association) to make sure that is allowed?
ReplyDeleteSince we have been mostly off-topic on this, let me throw out another: Why on earth do people live under the tyrannical rule of HOAs anyway? If someone is going to live in a place where they have limited individual and property rights, and all decisions are made by their neighbors or by a committee, why pay a premium for it? They could achieve the same by just renting an apartment.
In the South or Mississippi anyway, you cannot get a FHA load for a house with a HOA attached. The reason is they were used to exclude blacks. On this one I have(as much as I hate it) to agree with Moto. HOAs allow the few to dictate their idea as to what is normal and if you agree with these people you are happy is not, you become their whipping post. If something is bad, go to the city or state government and get a law passed, this way everybody gets a voice---if they want to use their voice.
ReplyDeletekono, I think you will find that excluding people of different ethnic backgrounds was the main reason HOAs became popular across the country, not just in the South. They took off right after the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Last time I checked, something like 20% of Americans lived in HOA situations. It was a tactic employed by the white folks of advantage so they could maintain their allegedly liberal credentials while making sure no black, Asian or Hispanic people were allowed into the neighborhood unless they met exacting standards. It is amazing to think that HOAs have been allowed to get away with usurping and exceeding local government laws and building codes without being dragged into court more often than they have.
ReplyDeleteIt had never occurred to me that HOA's sometimes served (or serve) the purpose of controlling who does and who doesn't move into the neighborhood. The two neighborhoods that I have been involved with, both in North Carolina—one in Chapel, the other in Mebane—categorically do NOT serve that purpose. Both communities have households of all races, particularly the one in Mebane, perhaps because it's a low-cost community. There are many blacks, Asians, Hispanics, and whites, children, young people, old people, working, retired, commuters, work-at-home.
ReplyDeleteBut it definitely has covenants, which everyone who purchases must sign, thereby agreeing to "follow the rules" as to upkeep, improvements, etc. I suspect that "Take the Fifth" was referring to such an agreement by "supposed to," but perhaps not.
Racism as a goal of HOAs never occurred to me either.
DeleteHowever...over the years I have eliminated my lawn, planted a forest, picked a mailbox that suited me, fenced my yard as it suited me, and kept a trailer at the curb - all of which would be forbidden by any HOA I know of. I would not submit to one under any circumstances.
This conversation, and especially Chuck's comment, has turned on a light for me. I just realized that HOA covenants probably originated as a sales tool for residential developers to keep their developments, which might take several years to complete, looking neat to prospective buyers. Our HOA in Mebane will pass from developer to homeowner control next year, after about eight years in development. One thing we homeowners MIGHT try is to do away with the covenants....
DeleteHere is a quote about HOAs from Wikipedia: "Early covenants and deed restrictions were exclusionary in origin, and in the first half of the 20th century many were racially motivated.[3] For example, a racial covenant in a Seattle, Washington neighborhood stated, "No part of said property hereby conveyed shall ever be used or occupied by any Hebrew or by any person of the Ethiopian, Malay or any Asiatic race."[4] In 1948, the United States Supreme Court ruled such covenants unenforceable, in Shelley v. Kraemer. However, private contracts kept them alive until The Fair Housing Act of 1968 banned them."
ReplyDeleteEven though blatant race-based rules were banned, HOA restrictions still have great impact on who wants to live under them even today. My house in Virginia is surrounded by the homes of many neighbors of African and Hispanic ancestry, and their color choices and design reflect their lineage. When I lived briefly in a planned community in Washington, DC, I had a very few neighbors of similar background, and they could do nothing to make their properties distinct because such was banned by the HOA. How much of the restriction on distinctive colors and design is to protect property values, and how much is to discourage people who like such from living there?
As Chuck noted, a homeowner can do many things with their property that will fit within government codes but would never achieve HOA guidelines. I maintain a backyard wildlife habitat that supports more than 100 species of birds and yet (just barely) fits within city codes. It could not exist under any HOA rules I have ever seen. So even though HOA rules would not ban me from a neighborhood because I am white, they would discourage me from living there because I am an environmentalist. And they would not allow me to live there if I wanted to display my Scottish clan's crest at the entry to my property, as I do now. If HOA rules can have that influence on me, it is not difficult to imagine the not-so-subtle impact they have on people of different ethnic backgrounds.