By Morris Dean
Todd Starnes is one of those people who are just fun to listen to talk, whether to someone else or to you. In fact, I think that each of the several times I've run into Todd at the local fitness center, he was talking to someone else, and seeming not to be concerned that another person had just joined his audience.
When I joined his conversation a couple of weeks ago, he was in the hot tub telling a woman about having been sexually abused as a child of eight to twelve by a brother in his early twenties....
At first I just listened because it was a remarkable story, of a sort I'd never been told before—or even overheard. But it soon became evident that Todd tells his story as a sort of mission, to get the word out how important it is that others who have been abused be encouraged to come forward as he has, so that they can get past it and move on.
He agreed to an interview as a way of furthering the mission. [My questions are in italics.]
Todd, all of that happened almost forty years ago. When did you came forward?
In 2006.
Why not before then?
I thought I was keeping peace in the family. The reason I finally came forward, I had been feeling tortured, you know, having nightmares about what happened. My brother was twenty-one when it first happened, right in my mother and dad's home. And I feel that Mother knew it. When I come forward it made her angry because it was a family secret. It runs on my mother's side—
Tell me how it runs on her side. You mean—
I done research—
...you mean there were other instances?
Oh, yeah! I've done research. I think it started before I was even born. An uncle had got his nephews. He never got me—
Your mother's brother?
Yes. And I know that my other uncle, he died of AIDS.
Another of your mother's brothers?
Yes, a half-brother. He got...I know of two of my brothers—or, one of my brothers and one of my cousins.
Well, my thing is, is that—
You're suggesting it runs in the family in the sense of being sort of the family culture? But being gay is biological, is it not?
I think it is. But I think it confused them, because if you are molested by the same sex, whether it's a man or a woman, and you don't really know....
How long did this go on? You were eight when it started, right?
Yes, for four years, until I was twelve.
What happened then?
Well, it stopped because my brother moved out of the house. He bought a home. But I took care of him when he had arthritis.
How did you feel about that? At twelve, you know, you're—
I didn't understand it, I didn't know. I didn't know what sex was. My brain hadn't developed. But I trusted him. He was my brother. He was a body-builder. I thought he would be teaching me things like play ball, whatever.
And so, you know, your brother, you trust 'em. If it's the next-door neighbor, you know something's up.
How extensive was this sexual abuse?
He had ten charges, five counts of indecent liberties with a child and five counts of first-degree sex offense with a child.
What did you do that led to the charges?
I went to the police in December 2006. In 2008 it went to court. It was over April 3rd.
He had confessed, and the Sheriff's Department had recorded everything. That's how they got him. So, then, in court he pleaded guilty.
He was supposed to give me help—you know, counseling, a few doctor bills, because I'm in therapy....
When in your experience did you realize that something really wrong had happened and you needed help?
I see it 2004 or 5. I have asked my doctor about it. I done research. I realized it was just eating me alive. I couldn't talk to anybody. I told a few family members what they done, and they just pushed it under the rug. But I feel like a lot of them was very angry, and I feel like it was done to everyone of them.
Wait—who was angry?
All of my family was angry. There was twelve siblings.
Twelve?
Four girls and eight boys. I was the youngest.
There was lots of anger. To tell you how angry my brother...I had two brothers that lived in Wilmington. Well, in July of last year, one of them beat the other so bad he died the next month.
One brother who lived in Wilmington beat the other to death?
Uh-huh, yes, sir. And you know, the anger comes from something that happened to them as a child. Numbing out is drugs, alcohol, or gambling.
Numbing out?
Numbing out not to face it.
So to me, other members of my family are now proud of me, but they've never told me. I'd been to no family functions until that brother in Wilmington was murdered. I went to his eulogy. I don't go to any other functions because I don't trust the members of my family. I love 'em at a distance, but I don't trust 'em.
You say they're proud of you, but they don't tell you. How do you conclude that?
Because now they're finally calling me and want me to come back to family functions. You know, they understand now, but it took five years.
I've got two brothers who are twins. One was the brother who molested me, and the other has been dedicated to a church, and so I went to him in 2005 and asked him, you know, if he could just listen to whatever I thought. I mean, him being from church, he was a deacon at one time, he could help me and...There was no help. So I said, "That's okay," I said, "so now I'm going to do it at the next level"—
So this was an early step that you took?
That was the first step I took—with him. I thought he would be able to help me, because he was in church. He'd be understanding, he has two grown children. But there was no feedback.
So I said, "You know what, I'm going to take it to the next level." I tried to share with him, but I couldn't.
So they know that I did take it to the next level. My thing was I was going to talk with the police to report it. But they didn't do anything at first, because...You have to go through their jurisdiction—it's like a rape case. So I went through that. I kept calling back. They called me at the end of the month. They said it's been so long, we have no evidence. And I said, "That's okay."
So then I started with the Sheriff's Department. And they kept blowing me off. You know. Well, finally, I got hold of someone, and we went back and forth because he said he had called me as "Unknown." I said, "I don't take Unknowns because"...At the time my sister and my mother tried to run into my car on the road, so I wouldn't take anonymous phone calls.
So when someone in the Sheriff's Department and I finally talked, he said he wanted to make sure my story was consistent. And he said, "When did this stop?" I said, "When my brother bought a home. That's exactly when it stopped."
He finally saw that my story was consistent. So, in 2006, I went down there for the last time. Sheriff Terry Johnson come to me and shook my hand. At the time, I didn't know why.
They said, "Well, you call your brother." I said, "Sure, in a sick way he'll be glad to hear from me." So I did. And he confessed on the phone. They taped everything. They arranged everything and told me they'd arrest him. He had ten charges. And I didn't know it would be on Fox Eight News, but it was in the latter part of December. It was on there three times that day.
And so my family found out through the news media he was on TV where they arrested him. They were very angry at me because I took out charges. Well, see, they didn't know anything.
My thing was, I'd tried to talk with them, and I talked with my mother in 2005, and she said, "Well, he tried to mess with your daddy years ago." And my daddy drank, and my daddy was very abusive to us. So, I said, "You know, it makes sense, Mom."
Well, anyway, I said, "You know what? I'm done with you." I said, "I took care of you for twenty-five years and you turn on me. And you know it's the truth because it happened in your home." It happened right in my mom and dad's room because my mom and dad shared the same room with me and this brother. So she knew what was going on, but I believe my mother was a victim too. That's the reason she was furious.
I think all my aunts and uncles were victims, and I think that they didn't want to handle it. Well, they were too old to face it. But I knew if I didn't face it, that I would die early. So I had to face it. Well, I—
How did you come to that realization? That's a powerful insight into your own life. What enabled you?
Because I knew if I didn't—
I had contacted my brother who abused me by mail in 2004. He wrote me back, and he said, "I know I took advantage of you, and I'm truly sorry." Well, I just wanted to talk to him, just to say, "Why did you do it?" But he never would see me in person. I sent him another certified letter, and I was very angry because I wanted to talk with him. I said, "You know, you're a sex offender," and I said, "You messed with me, and you know it." I said, "I've been to the Sheriff's Department."
I tried to warn him. To no avail. He wouldn't get in touch with me. So I showed him what I could do.
But to me—God put it in my heart, because I know in my heart he molested two of my nephews, 'cause he watched them—they were little—because I lay beside of him...The family knows who they are.
So you were—it seems like you have several strains of motive going. One, to liberate yourself—
Yeah. And also my two nephews—
To help your nephews...
I knew if they—
And to help other people who might be...
And the public. The public was awesome to me.
The public?
The public was—they called me, said, "I worked with you, I never dreamed you—You always had it together."
And I did, uh, go to work. And I was always neat, clean. But that package looked good from the outside, but on the inside it was destroyed.
Say a little more about this, and explain what you mean. You were doing it for the benefit of the public?
No, for the benefit of me, but the public was very supportive of me once they found out.
So that must have been a very good support for you, and help.
Yeah! Because I knew that my family wouldn't support me. I knew in my heart, because God had said to me in 2004 in my kitchen, he said, "You will be judged. Your sexuality will be judged."
Tell me more about your relationship with God. How long has that been going on?
I think...since I was a child. I think, as I've got older, that inner voice keeps me—it's like a compass in a car—keeps you in a good place, and it warns me, because if certain other people learn you've been a victim, they will try to victimize you again.
You identified that inner voice with God early on—
To come forward.
I take it that your family was a church-going family?
Uh, well I only had really one in the family. The one who was the twin, who was involved in church for thirty years. And I went to him because I thought he would be understanding, because he's got two grown children, because when you've got kids, you will fight for your children.
You've been a regular church-goer all of these years?
No, I haven't been lately to a church. I've been invited, and eventually I will be, to—I think one day I'll be in the auditorium to speak to victims. I don't want to preach. I want to teach.
That's why I'm doing the interview with you today.
So, now, your relationship with God is very personal rather than through a church organization.
Yes, it is, because you don't have to be a Christian to go up in church. There's devils in churches. [said in a whisper]
I live my life everyday. That's the reason I'm kind to everybody, because you can see somebody in public, they smile on your face, and they might be going home to take their life, because of hidden things, um—hidden things that have happened to them in childhood.
To me, what you've just said is as big a message as the other.
Yeah.
I, in fact, responded to you here at the gym because of what you are talking about now—being friendly and outgoing.
Everybody does. Uh, God leads me to people. And in Walmart...the grocery store, because he will put in my heart, he says, "Go talk to him."
I'm not sure when the last time God led somebody to me, but you might be one. <laugh>
To me, though, my friends have always said, "You'll be somewhere to teach to people."
And, you know, I dream about that. I always have. But I have to be with the right connection.
So you encourage people who might be reading this interview in Moristotle & Co. to possibly think about coming forward if they have been abused?
Yes. And I'm going to tell you also. Black folks, the reason they don't tell is because it's in the family unit, like it is with white folks.
How do you know that about black people?
I've talked to victims. They come to me—
How many other victims have made themselves known to you?
Oh, my gosh! It's probably—
Fifty? That many?
Maybe more. I know—When I know they're victims, I'll approach them, and I will say, "You know"—I'll tell them what I went through a little bit, and I'll say, "If you know anybody, you tell 'em about me, or, you know, if you see me in public, you know, talk to me." But I never approach them and sell a "you're victimized," because like me they have to come forward in their own time.
_______________
Copyright © 2013 by Morris Dean
At first I just listened because it was a remarkable story, of a sort I'd never been told before—or even overheard. But it soon became evident that Todd tells his story as a sort of mission, to get the word out how important it is that others who have been abused be encouraged to come forward as he has, so that they can get past it and move on.
He agreed to an interview as a way of furthering the mission. [My questions are in italics.]
Todd, all of that happened almost forty years ago. When did you came forward?
In 2006.
Why not before then?
I thought I was keeping peace in the family. The reason I finally came forward, I had been feeling tortured, you know, having nightmares about what happened. My brother was twenty-one when it first happened, right in my mother and dad's home. And I feel that Mother knew it. When I come forward it made her angry because it was a family secret. It runs on my mother's side—
Tell me how it runs on her side. You mean—
I done research—
...you mean there were other instances?
Oh, yeah! I've done research. I think it started before I was even born. An uncle had got his nephews. He never got me—
Your mother's brother?
Yes. And I know that my other uncle, he died of AIDS.
Another of your mother's brothers?
Yes, a half-brother. He got...I know of two of my brothers—or, one of my brothers and one of my cousins.
Well, my thing is, is that—
You're suggesting it runs in the family in the sense of being sort of the family culture? But being gay is biological, is it not?
I think it is. But I think it confused them, because if you are molested by the same sex, whether it's a man or a woman, and you don't really know....
How long did this go on? You were eight when it started, right?
Yes, for four years, until I was twelve.
What happened then?
Well, it stopped because my brother moved out of the house. He bought a home. But I took care of him when he had arthritis.
How did you feel about that? At twelve, you know, you're—
I didn't understand it, I didn't know. I didn't know what sex was. My brain hadn't developed. But I trusted him. He was my brother. He was a body-builder. I thought he would be teaching me things like play ball, whatever.
And so, you know, your brother, you trust 'em. If it's the next-door neighbor, you know something's up.
How extensive was this sexual abuse?
He had ten charges, five counts of indecent liberties with a child and five counts of first-degree sex offense with a child.
What did you do that led to the charges?
I went to the police in December 2006. In 2008 it went to court. It was over April 3rd.
He had confessed, and the Sheriff's Department had recorded everything. That's how they got him. So, then, in court he pleaded guilty.
He was supposed to give me help—you know, counseling, a few doctor bills, because I'm in therapy....
When in your experience did you realize that something really wrong had happened and you needed help?
I see it 2004 or 5. I have asked my doctor about it. I done research. I realized it was just eating me alive. I couldn't talk to anybody. I told a few family members what they done, and they just pushed it under the rug. But I feel like a lot of them was very angry, and I feel like it was done to everyone of them.
Wait—who was angry?
All of my family was angry. There was twelve siblings.
Twelve?
Four girls and eight boys. I was the youngest.
There was lots of anger. To tell you how angry my brother...I had two brothers that lived in Wilmington. Well, in July of last year, one of them beat the other so bad he died the next month.
One brother who lived in Wilmington beat the other to death?
Uh-huh, yes, sir. And you know, the anger comes from something that happened to them as a child. Numbing out is drugs, alcohol, or gambling.
Numbing out?
Numbing out not to face it.
So to me, other members of my family are now proud of me, but they've never told me. I'd been to no family functions until that brother in Wilmington was murdered. I went to his eulogy. I don't go to any other functions because I don't trust the members of my family. I love 'em at a distance, but I don't trust 'em.
You say they're proud of you, but they don't tell you. How do you conclude that?
Because now they're finally calling me and want me to come back to family functions. You know, they understand now, but it took five years.
I've got two brothers who are twins. One was the brother who molested me, and the other has been dedicated to a church, and so I went to him in 2005 and asked him, you know, if he could just listen to whatever I thought. I mean, him being from church, he was a deacon at one time, he could help me and...There was no help. So I said, "That's okay," I said, "so now I'm going to do it at the next level"—
So this was an early step that you took?
That was the first step I took—with him. I thought he would be able to help me, because he was in church. He'd be understanding, he has two grown children. But there was no feedback.
So I said, "You know what, I'm going to take it to the next level." I tried to share with him, but I couldn't.
So they know that I did take it to the next level. My thing was I was going to talk with the police to report it. But they didn't do anything at first, because...You have to go through their jurisdiction—it's like a rape case. So I went through that. I kept calling back. They called me at the end of the month. They said it's been so long, we have no evidence. And I said, "That's okay."
So then I started with the Sheriff's Department. And they kept blowing me off. You know. Well, finally, I got hold of someone, and we went back and forth because he said he had called me as "Unknown." I said, "I don't take Unknowns because"...At the time my sister and my mother tried to run into my car on the road, so I wouldn't take anonymous phone calls.
So when someone in the Sheriff's Department and I finally talked, he said he wanted to make sure my story was consistent. And he said, "When did this stop?" I said, "When my brother bought a home. That's exactly when it stopped."
He finally saw that my story was consistent. So, in 2006, I went down there for the last time. Sheriff Terry Johnson come to me and shook my hand. At the time, I didn't know why.
They said, "Well, you call your brother." I said, "Sure, in a sick way he'll be glad to hear from me." So I did. And he confessed on the phone. They taped everything. They arranged everything and told me they'd arrest him. He had ten charges. And I didn't know it would be on Fox Eight News, but it was in the latter part of December. It was on there three times that day.
And so my family found out through the news media he was on TV where they arrested him. They were very angry at me because I took out charges. Well, see, they didn't know anything.
My thing was, I'd tried to talk with them, and I talked with my mother in 2005, and she said, "Well, he tried to mess with your daddy years ago." And my daddy drank, and my daddy was very abusive to us. So, I said, "You know, it makes sense, Mom."
Well, anyway, I said, "You know what? I'm done with you." I said, "I took care of you for twenty-five years and you turn on me. And you know it's the truth because it happened in your home." It happened right in my mom and dad's room because my mom and dad shared the same room with me and this brother. So she knew what was going on, but I believe my mother was a victim too. That's the reason she was furious.
I think all my aunts and uncles were victims, and I think that they didn't want to handle it. Well, they were too old to face it. But I knew if I didn't face it, that I would die early. So I had to face it. Well, I—
How did you come to that realization? That's a powerful insight into your own life. What enabled you?
Because I knew if I didn't—
I had contacted my brother who abused me by mail in 2004. He wrote me back, and he said, "I know I took advantage of you, and I'm truly sorry." Well, I just wanted to talk to him, just to say, "Why did you do it?" But he never would see me in person. I sent him another certified letter, and I was very angry because I wanted to talk with him. I said, "You know, you're a sex offender," and I said, "You messed with me, and you know it." I said, "I've been to the Sheriff's Department."
I tried to warn him. To no avail. He wouldn't get in touch with me. So I showed him what I could do.
But to me—God put it in my heart, because I know in my heart he molested two of my nephews, 'cause he watched them—they were little—because I lay beside of him...The family knows who they are.
So you were—it seems like you have several strains of motive going. One, to liberate yourself—
Yeah. And also my two nephews—
To help your nephews...
I knew if they—
And to help other people who might be...
And the public. The public was awesome to me.
The public?
The public was—they called me, said, "I worked with you, I never dreamed you—You always had it together."
And I did, uh, go to work. And I was always neat, clean. But that package looked good from the outside, but on the inside it was destroyed.
Say a little more about this, and explain what you mean. You were doing it for the benefit of the public?
No, for the benefit of me, but the public was very supportive of me once they found out.
So that must have been a very good support for you, and help.
Yeah! Because I knew that my family wouldn't support me. I knew in my heart, because God had said to me in 2004 in my kitchen, he said, "You will be judged. Your sexuality will be judged."
Tell me more about your relationship with God. How long has that been going on?
I think...since I was a child. I think, as I've got older, that inner voice keeps me—it's like a compass in a car—keeps you in a good place, and it warns me, because if certain other people learn you've been a victim, they will try to victimize you again.
You identified that inner voice with God early on—
To come forward.
I take it that your family was a church-going family?
Uh, well I only had really one in the family. The one who was the twin, who was involved in church for thirty years. And I went to him because I thought he would be understanding, because he's got two grown children, because when you've got kids, you will fight for your children.
You've been a regular church-goer all of these years?
No, I haven't been lately to a church. I've been invited, and eventually I will be, to—I think one day I'll be in the auditorium to speak to victims. I don't want to preach. I want to teach.
That's why I'm doing the interview with you today.
So, now, your relationship with God is very personal rather than through a church organization.
Yes, it is, because you don't have to be a Christian to go up in church. There's devils in churches. [said in a whisper]
I live my life everyday. That's the reason I'm kind to everybody, because you can see somebody in public, they smile on your face, and they might be going home to take their life, because of hidden things, um—hidden things that have happened to them in childhood.
To me, what you've just said is as big a message as the other.
Yeah.
I, in fact, responded to you here at the gym because of what you are talking about now—being friendly and outgoing.
Everybody does. Uh, God leads me to people. And in Walmart...the grocery store, because he will put in my heart, he says, "Go talk to him."
I'm not sure when the last time God led somebody to me, but you might be one. <laugh>
To me, though, my friends have always said, "You'll be somewhere to teach to people."
And, you know, I dream about that. I always have. But I have to be with the right connection.
So you encourage people who might be reading this interview in Moristotle & Co. to possibly think about coming forward if they have been abused?
Yes. And I'm going to tell you also. Black folks, the reason they don't tell is because it's in the family unit, like it is with white folks.
How do you know that about black people?
I've talked to victims. They come to me—
How many other victims have made themselves known to you?
Oh, my gosh! It's probably—
Fifty? That many?
Maybe more. I know—When I know they're victims, I'll approach them, and I will say, "You know"—I'll tell them what I went through a little bit, and I'll say, "If you know anybody, you tell 'em about me, or, you know, if you see me in public, you know, talk to me." But I never approach them and sell a "you're victimized," because like me they have to come forward in their own time.
_______________
Copyright © 2013 by Morris Dean
| Please comment |
hmmm, no comments? Morris, when you see him next, tell him thanks for "testifying".
ReplyDeleteMaybe you'll have broken the ice, Susan. I'll forward your comment to Todd. I know he'll appreciate it.
DeleteI was left a message on my cell phone Saturday:
ReplyDeleteHey, Morris, it's Todd. I read the story that you put together. You did a wonderful job.
I seen the comment that Susan wrote, and maybe others will comment. Maybe it will help other people. That's why I done the interview.