Interview: Carolyn Waggoner & Kathryn Williams

Kathryn Williams & Carolyn Waggoner

The Authors of Rhino Dreams

Interviewed by Moristotle

Kathryn Williams was introduced to me by our mutual friend Jonathan Price, a prolific former contributing editor at Moristotle & Co. Jon wondered whether I might help her and her co-author, Carolyn Waggoner, get the word out about their novel, Rhino Dreams, which had just been published under the imprint She Writes Press.
    I agreed and she sent me a copy. Well, after sampling Rhino Games, I was all in. (I explained why in the review I wrote: “Rhino Dreams: 10 Reasons to Read This Novel.”)
    Rhino Dreams is a satisfying and thought-provoking read, especially if you’re interested—which most of our readers are—in the preservation of endangered animal species. The novel is set in Namibia, Africa, and one of its protagonists is a black-rhinoceros specialist. The arrival of a fetching female photographer ignites a duel between him and the imperious manager of a luxury safari lodge, whose relationship with wildlife may – or may not – be exploitive, a question the novel raises.
    But let’s get on with this interview! [My questions are set in italics.]

How did you two come to write Rhino Dreams? Whose idea was it?
    Williams: Carolyn and I had been writing short stories, and I suggested we write a novel, one that would appeal to a broader audience. I wanted a romance….
      Waggoner: I agreed, but only if the book had a positive impact on the fate of our planet. I suggested we focus on the black rhino. Kathy, do you remember why?
    Williams: Hmm, no, except that sloths and orangutans were too cute, and I couldn’t bear to read about their suffering.

Your bios at She Writes Press mention Kathryn’s “serving as a Peace Corps English teacher in Afghanistan, then traveling across India, Turkey, and Greece” and “traveling throughout South America, Mexico, Canada, and Europe” and Carolyn’s having “a sizeable menagerie of rescue creatures” and devoting “her days to throwing sticks, scooping litter boxes, preparing meals, and, on rare occasions, even writing” — nothing about Africa…?
    Waggoner: Right, neither of us has travelled to Africa, which meant we spent a great deal of time on research….
    Williams: And Carolyn’s a genius at it. I wrote most of the romance and cute animal scenes using Carolyn’s fact sheet. How much do baby rhinos weigh? What do they eat? What vegetation is there? She knew everything….
    Waggoner: Well, I watched hours of rhino rescues and orphanage live-feeds of the babies. I concentrated on writing the action scenes, including the terrible snare scene.

Oh, the snare scene – it really had me turning your pages!
    What other research did you two do to write the book?
    Waggoner: In addition to online research, we purchased academic books, read ecology treaties, and studied websites on Namibia, its environment and history, and specifically the black rhino.

Did you offer chapters of Rhino Dreams to writers’ group members for feedback? How important was that?
    Williams: We participated in the Blue Moon writers group, led by Scott Evans, which we both attended for years, workshopping our short stories. However, when we determined to write this novel, we agreed that we were in too much of a hurry to take it to the group. We felt we would be delayed and waylaid by multiple opinions. That said, I highly recommend groups.
    Waggoner: Many members of the Blue Moon have been published. In our case, however, we decided that getting the story down with little editing other than each other’s was better. Bringing ten pages to a group, getting feedback, taking it home to edit, is a great process but can be a slow one.
    Williams: In the last two-year dash to the finish, we met every day for four hours during summer. Each of us wrote a scene, which might be several chapters. We’d read aloud and then edit it….
    Waggoner: Repeat until we had 80,000 words. We printed and edited copies multiple times, then hired three editors.
    Williams: Once we found a publisher, they sent it through another revision, then a second. The “first pages” were returned for us to look over and even then, with Carolyn’s eagle eye, we had seven pages of corrections.
    Waggoner & Williams together: And I’m sure, there are still errors!

Yes, I spotted a few myself, but in my experience “the last error” simply means “the last error I’ve spotted.”
    Waggoner: Perfection is elusive for us mortals. At some point, every author needs someone who’ll shoot her when it’s time to stop messing, when the last edit is the last damn edit. For us, that someone was the wise and patient Shannon Green, our project manager at She Writes Press.

I showed the copy of Rhino Dreams you sent me to a friend who did some anti-poaching work himself in central Africa, and he asked whether your book’s cover design was chosen to echo Out of Africa, the famous novel by Isak Dinesen (a pseudonym of Karen Blixen)?
    [Waggoner & Williams look at each other.]
    Williams: We hadn’t thought of Isak Dinesen.

Who designed the cover?
    Williams: We were fortunate to have Mimi Bark Design create our book cover. Mimi launched her own business in 2012, but before that, she was the art director for Penguin and St. Martin’s Press. Our publisher contracted with her to design Rhino Dreams. There’s often a frustrating number of back and forths as the designer tries to read the authors’ minds and also satisfy the business savvy of the publisher.

    For all of us, Mimi hit nearly the first time around. She had green grass and a white rhino, which she quickly changed to dry grass and the black rhino. Voila! a cover both Carolyn and I liked, as did Brooke Warner of She Writes. Our cover has received a lot of positive attention from bookstores and other authors.

And well it might!
    I have a final question, about Sonoma, California. I lived on a chicken ranch west of Petaluma during my 1^st through 7^th grades, so the fact that your main character grew up in Sonoma really struck me. Have one of you lived there?
    Waggoner: True to form, we rejected the adage to “write what you know.” We’re longtime residents of northern California, but neither of us have spent much more time in Sonoma than it takes to drink some wine and have a picnic. Highly recommended!

Thank you both for spending this time with me. I’ve enjoyed it.
    Was there a question that one or both of you hoped I might ask but didn’t? Or just something else you’d like to say, a few last words?
   Waggoner & Williams in unison: “Everyone should read our book!”

Copyright © 2022 by Carolyn Waggoner, Kathryn Williams, & Moristotle